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Thread: Glover's workbench

  1. #51
    Name:  image.jpg
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Size:  109.6 KBTo jhb's point about the roof colour on my GN van, it is actually somewhat darker in reality; I'll take an outdoor photo on a brighter day. You may have to wait.....

    John Mayner is showing some superb wagons on his work bench ( " tales from the carriage shop"). Some are conversions, others old cast metal kits.
    The above are somewhat old technology but currently available; the Alphagraphix card kits.
    The one on the right is a MGWR convertible wagon. I think the idea was that the canvas centre part of the roof could be rolled back when carrying cattle.
    Until Leslie McAllister started up Provincial Wagons, these were one of the very few ways of achieving a realistic Irish wagon.
    They are tedious to build but the end result is reasonable but now overtaken by Provincial Wagons.

    Glover

  2. #52
    I mentioned that I used various Parkside wagon kits in an effort to achieve Irish type wagons.
    I can't remember which kits I used but there was a fair amount of cross kitting, mostly to achieve the plain ends. To my knowledge, only the CIE sliding door pallet vans and the GNR bagged cement wagons had corrugated ends.Name:  image.jpg
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    None of them are quite there and, again, suffer in comparasion to the Provincial Wagons H van.
    As has been remarked many times, the range and quality of Irish stock has improved by leaps and bounds in recent years but it does mean that those of us who have been bashing away for years now find ourselves behind the game. Progress has a lot to answer for, I say!

    Glover

  3. #53
    Founding Father jhb171achill's Avatar
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    I have to say, Glover, I think your models are absolutely top notch and really capture the atmosphere of the prototype better than most I've seen. The variety of them, the attention detail and above all weathering - look at any old photo of the era you are recreating and goods stock was always in a very down-at-heel state cosmetically. A rake of pristine clean wagons in those times, in all fairness, is about as accurate as 800 hauling De Dietrichs!
    “An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support”

    Never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

  4. #54
    I'm fascinated to learn how you made your models and envy the ability to look at a kit or RTR model and see the potentiate to convert to Irish Stock. Add to that the history of the wagons, it's all learning for me. Also John Mayner's post of his wagons is excellent.

  5. #55
    I have two guards van's, as shown below.Name:  image.jpg
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    The 30 ton van on the left is the Studio Scale Models brass kit, on a Airfix/Dapol under frame. I'm not that comfortable with brass although the problem here is the plastic roof; my fault entirely.

    The 20 ton van is from Irish Freight Models. I bought the body part only and fitted it to a Dapol chassis. Trying to be clever/correct, I stretched the wheel base to eleven feet. Somehow I managed to make it actually 12 feet! I have no idea how I managed this and i have to admit I've made this mistake before. Concentrate boy!
    The body is a resin moulding. The finish is a little rough but acceptable for a wooden bodied vehicle.

    Glover

  6. #56
    Up to the early 1970s, cattle wagons were a very common sight on CIE.
    The standard CIE wagon, a KN to railway men was a distinctive vehicle, unlike anything that ran on Britains railways.
    This was an earlier attempt at achieving something to run in a 10/12 wagon cattle special.Name:  image.jpg
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    It's the old Mainline LNER wagon but with the doors modified. Whatever else it might be, it is not a CIE van.
    As Samuel Beckett said: Try. Fail. Try again. Fail better.....

    Glover

  7. #57
    Founding Father jhb171achill's Avatar
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    Now that we have fertiliser wagons, bubbles and above all "H" vans, the CIE cattle truck is one of the last major omissions! I believe Leslie is bringing one out tomorrow.......................................... ................................!!!!!
    “An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support”

    Never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

  8. #58
    Weren't the roofs part tarpaulin ?

  9. #59
    Founding Father jhb171achill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junctionmad View Post
    Weren't the roofs part tarpaulin ?
    No - never on cattle trucks. Originally they were open roofed until Board of Trade regulations made railway companies cover them some time after 1900. (Didn't stop the T & D using open ones until the end, though!).

    The vehicles with the "part-tarpaulin" roofs divided roughly into thirds, with the middle section open, were otherwise normal goods vans. Officially "Convertible Vans", they were more normally known as "soft tops" because while they could be used as cattle vans with the tops open, they were more normally used for general goods with the open sections covered by tarpaulins, which were held down by ropes going over the sides and secured either side of the central van doors. Virtually all Irish railways had them, both standard and narrow gauge. None survive.

    The last ones in traffic on the 5ft 3 were probably mid to late 50s, as once the "H" vans started to be built en masse, they disappeared, just as the energetic prodiction line of Park Royals and laminates sent the passenger six wheelers to the scrap man in pretty short order. I think that the West Clare and C & L may have had them almost until closure.

    I believe that "soft tops" were a uniquely Irish idea.
    Last edited by jhb171achill; 20-02-2017 at 10:41 AM.
    “An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support”

    Never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

  10. #60
    There is an easy route to modelling an Irish cattle van or the GNR version anyway: the Provincial Wagons kit (or RTR) from the hard working Leslie McAlister.
    I should say that two of these are Leslie's kits; the one on the left is the old Model Wagon Company white metal kit. Mayner has displayed four of these on his work bench ("tales from the carriage works").Name:  image.jpg
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    I bought the kit from that old atmospheric ( the pipe tobacco!) model shop in Monck Place,
    Phibsboro.
    The 'problem' is that they are not really suited to a layout set in 1963. GNR wagons seemed to have a very short life when CIE took over, especially the cattle vans. Understandable I suppose given that the CIE vans were newer and this particular traffic was declining. Therefore, the CIE round logo on one van is highly improbable; my excuse is the very limited space for the Flying Snail.

    So, the search for a suitable CIE KN goes on.....

    Glover

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