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Thread: CIE 60s early 70s era goods wagons

  1. #11
    Senior Member Mayner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    Its easy to forget how busy these little stations used to be with pick up goods traffic. I remember spending hours watching B&T and early ST locos shunting loose coupled stock in places like Galway yard, Newbridge, Portarlington, Gort (visiting Uncle), Waterford (home), etc. It was mesmerising with very interesting movements including signalling which I never fully understood. The constant change in pitch of the baby GMs as they patiently shunted stock, often a single wagon off a passing mixed goods train, or some times on the western lines coupled to the rear of passenger trains. It was a golden era alright and so much more interesting than push-pull and fixed rake formation. These stations were alive with activity interspersed with hours of nothing happening except for trains passing each other on loops.

    We can't stop progress, but there is nothing stopping us modelling trains when they were interesting to operate, almost Rubik's Cube like mental agility needed by the CIE staff when shunting stock off trains into sidings in the right order. I can still hear the noises, voices, humming engines, metal to metal clinking and clacking, flanges screeching, and couplings being slung unto hooks. H&S today would never have allowed youngsters my age back then line side. Some of the CIE staff gave me amazing amount time telling yarns and explaining how it all worked, what was controlled from Dublin and what was from the local signal box, and what they could do within the station confines off the main lines, and what procedures they had to adopt to keep trains running when analog signalling systems failed.

    I think few people under the age of 50 would have much of a re-collection of pick up goods operation or loose formation passenger trains with the majority of Irish modellers seem to focus on the 80s &90s era judging by the locos and stock produced by MM and the workshop projects that appears on this board.

    The exception appears to be the GNR maybe because the railway had a much more positive image or maybe railway modelling was a more established hobby in Northern Ireland than the South, certainly GNR locos and stock appears to be a popular subject for modelling projects among Northern modellers. Provincial Wagons have built on this support with a good collection of high quality custom built and re-livered Dapol wagons, including the all important IRCH cattle & standard covered wagon the GNR equivalent of the CIE/GSR K & H and the distinctive GNR goods brake.

    Another factor is that Irish & UK modellers seem to be less interested in operation than our American cousins

    Ironically my first exposure to shunting at an MRSI exhibition in the early 70s where the late Harry Connaughton was shunting a collection of esquisite scratchbuilt O Gauge passenger and goods stock with a pair of T2 locomotives. Tellingly I seemed to be the only person that was interested most people were focused on the big club tail layout.
    John


    If I was going there I would'nt be starting here.

  2. #12
    Senior Member jhb171achill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    Classic Irish goods yard scene from early 70s. Photo Ciaran Cooney

    Loose coupled, non-braked pick up freight. Trains dropped off a wagon or two at each station, and picked up one or two.


    Just a correction; copyright is Barry's. The photo is from "Rails Through the West".
    “An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support”

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  3. #13
    Senior Member DiveController's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    I didn't want to drift the news thread on IRM, so separate thread here. Some pics of the wagons that would be great to be able to buy one day as quality RTR models. I know there are some suppliers of kits and low quality RTR, but it would be fab one day if high quality injection moulded fine scale models were available of some of these wagons, especially the Bulleid beat wagon and H-Vans.

    The most numerous wagon to ever run on Irish rails and the back bone of freight from the late 50s through to the early 70s


    These Vans were found in every siding of every station. Pick up freight when locos shunted and movements were interesting.


    The quintessential open wagon.


    Loose coupled non-braked pick up freight


    Loose coupled non-braked freight


    All copyrights to the photo links acknowledged
    Great thread, Noel. Very interested in this era also. Love all those previous threads of a similar nature by jhb171achill. I'm not sure if it's realized how much interest there might be in this era. I think there would be huge interest if more rtf locos were available. Yes, I know there are options but not like heading into the model store and picking your MM model etc.
    Last edited by DiveController; 10-09-2016 at 02:32 AM.
    "Where Seventeen Railroads Meet the Sea"

  4. #14
    It depends on the demographic age profile of today's Irish market, nostalgia memory, etc. Anecdotally one might be forgiving for making the 'generalised' assumption that the dominant age profile in terms of numbers involved in the hobby are 60+, post mortgage, children left home, disposable income, etc. (ie very crudely observed by attendance at shows, swap meets, etc). But as stated that's just a crude and highly generalisec observation. It's also an age profile that is not as 'social media' hungry. A child in the toy segment today probably just remembers Darts, Luas, 2x00, 22ks and 201 hauled mk4s, or containers, or timber, etc.

    Photos like these are seen by kids as the olden days, when traffic lights were black and white, cars were black, and their great grand parents may have lived in areas without electricity or running water.
    Last edited by Noel; 10-09-2016 at 01:53 AM.

  5. #15
    The whole 70-78 transition era is fascinating

  6. #16
    IRRS 1967

    This fabulous bit of film footage shows delivery livery 121 hauling mixed rakes of coaches in B&T and Flying snail green, A class crawling with loose coupled goods wagon. What a fab clip and look how petty the stations are maintained and landscaped. I know its been posted here before but it kind of relates to the thread. Pure glorious nostalgia. Looking forward to MM0121 later this winter or spring.

    Look at the speed the 121 passes over Carrig viaduct. 5m50s into clip Sulzer hauling mixed loose coupled goods train. Goods traffic back then was so varied and interesting.



    There are plenty more IRRS videos here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqU...GENaufA/videos

    Some fab sugar beat trains which were longest goods trains in Ireland.


    Whoever made these films deserves the gratitude of rail fans and modellers. They are pure gold.
    Last edited by Noel; 10-09-2016 at 06:37 PM.

  7. #17
    Great footage but the detail you hope to see is not there compared to today's digital reproduction. A sign of the time but we are lucky to have at least this.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mayner's Avatar
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    Interesting the number wooden bodies (Irish Railway Clearing House) opens and vans that appear in both videos. The westbound double headed good headed by a B101& C201 Class with a luggage van cut in in front of the guards van is an interesting one.

    Goods traffic was heaviest between Waterford & Dungarvan with an out and back trip working from Waterford in addition to the daily through goods train. Perhaps the C Class dropped off to shunt the yard at Dungarvan and work a train back to Waterford while the B101 continued on to Fermoy and Mallow.

    It would be interesting to see if there is enough demand to crowd fund an injection moulded KN cattle wagon or a 20T CIE brake van potentially the largest gaps in Irish loose coupled goods stock.

    Provincial Wagons produce reasonably good resin models of the corrugated open, IRCH standard van, IRCH short cattle wagon and have plans to produce a H Van. Good quality kits are available from SSM for the 30t brake and IRCH standard open, while its reasonably simple to kit bash a GNR 16T Cement Van, a H Van or a Pallet Van from the Parkside-Dundas kits. The CIE standard KN cattle wagon looks totally different from the British rtr or kit wagons
    John


    If I was going there I would'nt be starting here.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    It depends on the demographic age profile of today's Irish market, nostalgia memory, etc. Anecdotally one might be forgiving for making the 'generalised' assumption that the dominant age profile in terms of numbers involved in the hobby are 60+, post mortgage, children left home, disposable income, etc. (ie very crudely observed by attendance at shows, swap meets, etc). But as stated that's just a crude and highly generalisec observation. It's also an age profile that is not as 'social media' hungry. A child in the toy segment today probably just remembers Darts, Luas, 2x00, 22ks and 201 hauled mk4s, or containers, or timber, etc.

    Photos like these are seen by kids as the olden days, when traffic lights were black and white, cars were black, and their great grand parents may have lived in areas without electricity or running water.
    From attending the odd club and exhibitions etc , I'd say the demographic that's now most prevalent seems to be 40+ , with minorities in the 60s. This is possibly due to the cost of railway modelling these days.

    I'm the same age as Noel , but I'd didn't start haunting railways till about 73 , and as I lived in the country and my dad was car mad , we rarely came in contact with railways before I started traveling on them myself. I do remember an early trip to Waterford good shed ( the new one ) when H vans etc were in common use. ( and watching the shunting ) , but in reality all my detailed recollections were from the start of the super train era and while the sidings were full of laid up vans , the main trains were block or unit trains.

    Personally , I prefer the immediate post Black and Tan period, the era of 1975+ freight modernisation very interesting , primarily because you had an explosion of interesting single purpose freight wagons . Equally that era began to be seriously chronicled by photographers an issue that bedevils previous eras in Irish railway history. My only regret was , that life pressures , meant I didnt run round the country in the late 90s , with my first digital camera , before all of it was destroyed from 2005 onwards.

    I do mourn the current generation of young people who will have little or no variety to model, can't see the attraction in the post 2010 scene personally at all.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Mayner's Avatar
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    I don't know if its different in Ireland and the UK but model railways seems to be more of a hobby for the older generation or maybe older people have more time and money for the hobby.

    The majority members of our local garden railway group are over 50 with similar demographics among American modellers in Auckland. Our identity and personal interests are pretty tied up with our experiences in our formative years and like our parents its difficult for a Baby Boomer to relate Alpha or Generation Z culture, tastes in music, fashion and ralways.

    In the 50s and 60s many people thought the change from steam to diesel and large scale line closures would kill the hobby, today Ireland's railways are probably in a better way than they ever were in terms of sheer intensity of service and the physical condition of rolling stock and infrastructure. Modelling a section of the contempory Cork or Belfast line would be more challenging than the 70s and 80s as apart from the 071 & 201 Class locos practically all the rolling stock would have to be custom built or built from scratch
    John


    If I was going there I would'nt be starting here.

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